next week, next week..

This was meant to be Pastoral Week on the bob.blog... but.

But my brain is simply not working. The inspiration, the words... absent. I'm tired, I feel a bit stressed... my brain is running about 8 different directions right now.

Our community faces challenges both good and... uh... challenging.

We're growing. In spite of seeing some people move away and some people fade away, last Sunday was our biggest ever, and by a fairly big margin. New people just keep showing up, which is a great problem to have, but let's face it- it's a strain on the community to grow quickly. There have been so many visitors these past few sundays, it's been hard (and last Sunday it was impossible) for me to meet them all, much less have meaningful conversations with any of them...

Anyway, between the good problems of growth and the less-good problems of being an imperfect pastor of imperfect people, my mind is... uh...

Now what was I saying?

Comments

[Andrew]

Bob, maybe with this growth you guys need to set up a separate campus with a video feed! :) Just thought you could use a laugh!

[Chris Marsden]

Isn't that what being a pastor is all about? Not the being busy, but the being overwhelmed by our own inadaquecies and God's ability make things happen despite our weaknesses. Of course, I think I would prefer to be overwhelmed by how smoothly my life is going and how great my abilities are, but reality inevitably sets in and God has to take over. Thank Goodness.

[david]

bob,
how is it that you feel like you need to meet them all?
WWJD?
what would JETHRO do?

[bob]

David- I know what you are saying...

But both situations were very different, no?

And yeah- I have elders and the rest of the community knows they are to be involved in welcoming people into the community... I just know I have a unique role in the beginning of someone's time at evergreen and then after they get settled in.

We have given up on having all the new people who come to evergeen at our place for dinner at some point- but I don't want to give up much else! This is community dagnabbit, and that means something! :)

[Drew Caperton]

Bob,

Dallas and I are going through some good transitions at Vox Church, too. We're redefining our roles and figuring out how to spend more time with people and less time with each other.

You really might need another you. Not just elders, but someone who will eventually mean just as much [maybe more] to Evergreen as you do. If that sounds like an indictment, it's not meant to. It seems like if you really want to plant another church, you're going to need another you.

[jason]

I'm struck by the realization that perhaps, like God, community has a "dark" side. You know, Grace and Wrath, Mercy and Justice...Belonging and Alienation...?

[bob]

Jason- I think you are totally right...

Drew-

I hear you, and that's really the issue. I've been looking for a church planting apprentice for awhile... I have Chris, my associate pastor, but one thing we realized last week was that the way we used to do church, it was 1 pastor for every 150 people... we're now thinking it's somewhere between 50-70... the hard part for me has been seeing a few people I had hoped would work into the role of pastor/elder at evergreen fade away, take ministry jobs somewhere, move away... all kinds of stuff. We have new folks showing up, some of who I think will end up in that role- but we're a ways away...

[Dustin]

it looks like i have a bald spot in that picture. crap.

[Kipp Wilson]

Bob, your church may be a prime case study for us to track as our church plant grows. We are averaging around 20 people now, and are already emphasizing branching into two congregations as we grow. It sounds like your church is ready to focus on branching, if Chris is ready to move into a solo pastor role. Could you (plural) make Chris a full co-pastor, equally sharing the preaching load, to make the transition easier?

I'm ragingly curious to see what you do. I've already pointed our people to your church's website as an example of how to do honest church advertising, so you have already become a case study, like it or not! :)

[Blake Blunkall]

Ahhh.... The humble beginnings of a megachurch;)

[bob]

Whoa! no megachurches here! :)

My hope had been that by now we'd have a church planter ready to go... and in a way, we do. One of our elders wants to plant, but it's going to be in vancouver. We have a couple people from vancouver, that we can encourage to go along, but it won't be a full fledged church plant thing where we're able to send 25-30 people to help form the core.

There are some other options, some people I hope will plant out of evergreen... one other scenario is to start something at a separate time/location and allow someone who's not yet ready to plant to work into leading that part of the community until after a year, year and a half, we can spin them off into their own independent thing...

I'm thinking that Chris is thinking he's not going to plant any time soon (it will be a couple of years, if at all- I've never heard from him definitively that it's something he wants to pursue).

It's all speculation right now! We'll see if evergreen keeps growing...

[Kipp Wilson]

Perhaps "plant" is the wrong verb. Would it make more sense to say "branch"? In other words, not to plant a church in another city or another part of the same city (geographic thinking) but to branch into two congregations in that same area (even in the same building at different times) because there are too many people for one church to equip effectively (missional thinking).

The difference between this and just having two services or satellite campuses is that both congregations would develop into independent entities (well, as independent as two churches SHOULD be) with two separate leadership structures and so on.

What do you think?

[bob]

I think that's a great idea! actually. In our case, we have people coming from a wide geographic area... we moved about a year and a half into this thing from SW Portland to SE Portland. That took our sunday thing closer to 2/3rds of our people and farther from 1/3rd. I think my first priority would be to "branch" into SW PDX with those people who live there, and help them be a more indigenous community that missionally focuses on impacting and serving SW.

[crystal]

Bob, would it be possible for you to be the next church planter? I'm seeing all these great ideas about training people up to it so they can take the plunge, which I think is totally awesome. But maybe it would also be good sometimes for people who have successfully planted to plant again? It would be no problem to surround one's self with a core group, that person already has valuable experience, and maybe it's easier to train someone to be a pastor than a planter. Isn't that pretty similar to what Paul did? I realize that puts a lot of pressure on the planter, maybe it's a bad idea, but maybe its not. What are your thoughts?

[bob]

Good thoughts... one of our first elders (Johnny V!) proposed exactly that as our model for church planting in the early days of evergreen...
What I told him was that I was open to it, but didn't think I could physically handle planting more than one church in a 5-7 year period!
:)

I think eventually, this may happen. Or it may not- one dream of mine is that we do evergreen for 20 years, plant 20 other church communities here in the area, and then after that time shut down "our" thing and all go and be the older, wiser Christians we wish we had had among us when we started evergreen. At that point, my "job" would transition from pastoring evergreen to pastoring the pastors of our daughter and grand-daughter churches...

But I'm open to planting out of evergreen as well. Paris seems like a good place for me to pray about :)

But I don't think that would happen for awhile- And probably most likely when Chris has finished seminary and feels ready to be a lead pastor? I don't know...

So- if you are reading this- we ned church planters. We need men and women with the heart to pastor and shepherd people, to teach them and love them! Come be a part of evergreen! Start loving some of these people, work your way into leadership, become their pastor and we'll send you out to be another missional Christ-centered community here in PDX.

Thus endeth the pitch!

[crystal]

I see where you're coming from. Tell you what. Send a planter to Salem & I'll be a part of it. I would definately be a part of evergreen if I lived closer!

[bob]

Hey- is this Amy's friend crystal??? :)
We have a couple people coming from Salem...
And that tells me there's a need for something there... and believe me, if I had the resources (a core group, a planting pastor and a small bit of dough to make sure they have some things they'd need), we'd do a plant there! But the more organic/small thing means we do what we do on more a shoestring... so I think our "plants" will look a bit more organic in the sense that we'll just see that we have some people coming from a particular area, and we'll spin them off into their own thing. But I still think that requires someone to help shepherd that thing, and that would mean finding a planter with roots in/a heart for Salem...
So all that to say- come be part of evergreen, and help us plant something in Salem! :)

[Kipp Wilson]

One of the ways we are trying to make that eventual transition easier is to wean people off the idea of "the pastor." Even at this early stage of the game, we have a group of elders who are (finally!) working on sharing the preaching load (which has been mine up until now). I suppose it helps that we have a Bible college nearby and are drawing a lot of students and graduates--something I hope to change as we become more settled in our identity and really ramp up the missional focus.

Of course, none of us are getting paid either, so it's easy for now to not dump all responsibility on one person. The pitfall will be if/when we eventually hire a pastor (though I'd prefer the term "organizational elder"). It's hard to retain the view that this sort of person is hired to equip us, not replace us, in ministry.

You can see how that is a bit different from the "church planter leading a core group" mentality.

[bob]

It is, and I'd nuance my view this way. Certain elders teach well, have the gift of "pastor" and so spend their time studying, with people, etc. It's both biblical and wise to free them up so they can devote themselves to that, so they can give maximum attention to the community. It's an old chestnut, but I'm not paid to pastor, I'm paid so I'm free to.

So- I teach 3 out of 4 weeks- because I have the time to prepare, because I'm okay at it, because that allows me time to help others learn how to do it, by showing them how, allowing them a chance to practice and then debriefing...

I continue to use the term "pastor" because I think it's biblical- it describes both my gift and my function within this community. Ideally, we'd be helping all our elders financially so they would have more time to shepherd and care for others and to help others do the same... But we're a long way from that and it's not feasible for many of them.
So, we have a couple elders right now that we are able to support in such a way that they can devote themselves exclusively to the care of our community- me and Chris. I'd love to see that grow though...

[crystal]

yes :) this is amy's crystal. I love the preaching at my mega church but just can't seem to plug in. i tried a small church for awhile and was even on the worship team but just wasn't challenged and the connection i was hoping for just wasn't really there. the last time i was really connected to a church family was in HS when ames was around. maybe i'll come visit ya'll sometime, but there's just no way for us to fit an hour commute into our lives on a regular basis :( someday when you can start something here, let me know :)

[Kipp Wilson]

Oh, I'm not saying there's anything inherently unbiblical about the term. I just think it is a description of the role all elders play--that of shepherd. (After all, there's only one time in the NT that the word is translated "pastor" in our English Bibles; all the other times it simply means "shepherd," frequently literally. I think we've over-religionized the term to mean something more specific than what the bible teaches.)

I know there's a balance to be struck. If you adamantly refuse to pay any one person to supervise the church, then as it grows even slightly you're going to have it led by a committee of 20 or so elders which is really unwieldly. I just don't know how to avoid all the junk that goes along with having a full-time pastor that prevents churches from branching:

- People like the pastor's preaching, so they don't want to branch into another church without him.

- The other elders, who all have full-time jobs, are reluctant to take on shepherding and discipling responsibilities other than the general administration of the church.

- Without a real apprenticeship mentality, nobody is being intentionally groomed to be an equal pastor so that the church can branch under two fully qualified leaders.

- If a second pastor is hired, it is usually in a specialized area or areas (youth, music, etc.), which does not adequately prepare them for the broad range of ministry that a solo pastor is responsible for. (Getting to preach three times a year hardly prepares one to preach every week, especially if those three times are not supervised and critiqued by the senior pastor.)

Any ideas on how to avoid them?

[Jason Cox]

Bob, The part of growing that really is exciting is the part that allows others to take on simular if not the same responsibilities. If your trying to build a church, which I find really unrealistic considering the body of Christ, I suspect that maybe if your getting a bit over the count of 30 in your group, maybe it's time that you split the group? The part of descipleship is; training enough so that others can take on the load of growth and you don't have to do it all. I find this a value in the arena of home churches and small groups. I have abandoned the secular realm of "congregations" that hold more than 200 people. There is not enough personal/relationship with anyone when the congregation reaches beyond this #......

God didn't say that you had a certain # of people you had to manage did he? or did he?

Consider a caution of the fruit of pride: the greater the croud then the pastor is proud.
I don't see this as your issue, but just mere caution while the growth spert is upon you. Find a trustable familie or families (depending on the # of splits) and create leaders like yourself to manage a portion of the growth. Perhaps they can lead on another evening of the week for the other folks. take a poll to find out who would like to meet on what days and create your groups/splits to reflect those who prefer certain days. I am not a believer that "Sunday" is the only day of rest. I believe as long as we take a day of the week to observe our Lord in rest, then it's justifiable. Otherwise, the grace He gave to us at His sacrifice doesn't make sense. ;)

Jason