Just when I think I'm out... they pull me back in

I won't comment much on the recent dust-up over Driscoll's video at the 2007 National New Churches Convention.

I will say this, though. I realize that for Mars Hill Church in Seattle, women in elder/pastoral ministry  (or more precisely, not being in elder/pastoral ministry) is in the "closed hand" of issues/doctrines not up for questioning or reconsidering, as opposed to the "open hand" of things over which Mars Hill people can disagree without disengaging. I get that.

I also get that the last time we were together, I heard Mark say specifically that when it comes to relationships/fellowship outside of Mars Hill, women in ministry is an "open hand issue."

What I don't get is Mark's tone-deafness when speaking to a huge group of people that
he knows are all over the map on this issue, including a number of women pastors and church planters. I realize he has his opinions. Boy, does he.
I also know he's smart... and I really don't want to believe that Mark would intentionally poke a stick into a bee hive every few months just to draw some attention. I really don't.

So we're going to go with option 2- He forgets that in terms of relationship with other churches and the Body of Christ as a whole, he's trying to see this issue as an open hand thing about which good Christian people can disagree. And in forgetting, he speaks with perhaps less grace, less care than he should to people who he knows feel very strongly and very differently than him about the issue. In fact, the more he talks about this issue, the more he pushes and pounds it, the more that open hand feels like a closed fist.

And so when someone like Bill Hybels pushes back ever so gently, he really should listen.

Andrew Jones has the whole story here, including some corrections to Mark's take on the story from others who were there.

And the iMonk has the real rebuke to Mark, about one line from this short video that is getting less attention than the whole general issue, a line which I hope was spoken in haste and wothout thought.

Mark's a good guy- but he's tacking further and further to the right. His Jesus is becoming more and more like an ultimate fighter and less and less like the Prince of Peace and that's disturbing. Mark seems also to be making less and less room for any but a certain type of masculinity, and any but a certain type of relating between men and women, and that too is disturbing.

Here's another video that's been making the rounds, as sort of a response. I just want it to be known that the picture of the pastor's wife who HASN'T "let herself go" that comes directly after Mark's quote in the video is a picture of my awesome wife Amy (whose birthday is today!). How she got in there, I don't know... But glad we could contribute!

And then just for, uh... "fun", for the ladies, here's the real deal on women (please do NOT watch this if you have high blood pressure)