Video Venue Churches: Pay your taxes

I said here that video venues threatened the gift of preaching. 

And I still mean it- more and more people watching a screen, means fewer and fewer people engaging in the art of teaching a congregation with regularity- communities that once had (or would have had) a teaching team soon will have a campus pastor who gets to preach maybe 12 times a year... and a DVD. 

Remember- one of the main apologies of those taking this route is that there just aren't enough talented teachers to go around. But the video venue, practically speaking, means fewer people with the real, hard experience of teaching a community week in and week out- what is certainly a gift of the Spirit, but also a learned skill that takes time to "master." 

And so the cycle perpetuates itself- fewer men and women with the chops to speak to crowds who increasingly expect polished oratory and high production values means more and more will look to the video venue to fill the gaps, thus creating a self perpetuating cycle. And what was meant to extend the gift of preaching now begins to kill it. 

But as I said in my last post on this: It doesn't have to be that way, if the Church will just pay it's taxes. Or maybe another way to put this is: When we hear a heart-stirring or life-changing message, we like to thank the one who brought it. Maybe we should thank the ones who listened to/sat through all the less-than-heart-stirring, sometimes mediocre messages that person had to preach as they were learning how to use the gift God had given them without putting a congregation to sleep.

Evergreen has a team of 7 elders (soon to be six as Chip heads to Denver to be the teaching pastor @ TNL) and all of whom are, in the words of Paul, "able to teach." While Dustin and I share the bulk of teaching at our two sites, all the other elders are in regular rotation, teaching our community, sharing their insight, perspective and unique voices with the community.  And growing in their teaching skills, even as I am, and as Dustin is. 

I don't claim to be a master preacher by any stretch- but I can do it. And the way I learned is by doing it. You learn to lead small groups by watching others do it and then doing it yourself, you learn to lead others in worship by watching others do it and then doing it yourself, and you learn to teach the community, to walk through passages of Scripture, teasing out what God was saying to them and what He's saying to us by watching others do it and then doing it yourself. And really, that's the only way. 

So- while we expect a certain level of facility with leading worship, with teaching, with leading a group or serving in some other way in the community we also recognize: We are ALL engaging in on the job training. 

And the community that, for instance, pays the tax of listening to a slightly less coherent message, or one with a less-than-Rob-Bell-mind-blow factor, or slightly less entertaining/engaging than Mr Driscoll, is making an investment. 

They invest in the teacher they are being taught by. By engaging, listening, giving good feedback (both encouraging and constructive) they help that elder they love, that elder who loves them and is doing his or her best to explore God's Word with them, to learn how to do it better and better.

And in so doing they invest in the future. The future not just of that elder, not just of their community, but of the Church as a whole as we all benefit by more and more people exercising their gifts, gaining mastery in how to do what God has gifted and called them to do. 

To me, video venues are at their heart, miserly. They are a symptom of a church who refuses to pay the community tax and invest in the future. They (along with mega churches and even personality-based smaller churches) try to parlay the gift of one or two people into something bigger and bigger, and like short-sighted Americans driving bigger and bigger Hummers say: Who cares about the consequences to future generations? I got mine.

Please understand: I recognize that the vast majority of those engaged in video venues have, at their core, a passion for seeing people come to know, love, and follow Jesus. I get that. And I even get that God uses the silliest of methods to bring people to Him. I'll bet I could even find someone who has been saved through the Evangecube. 

But just because God honors our silly methods occasionally doesn't mean we shouldn't look for better ways, perhaps less silly, perhaps ones with fewer unintended consequences. 

Comments

[mary]

I am amazed at this whole concept-it reminds me of something out of Big Brother (The book-not TV show) as it is so impersonal and creepy. I know not every church is Evergreen with discussions and all, but something about relationship is so important.

[chaplainandrews]

This is a very interesting point that you are making. I have heard much about a church with different locations--but what about the pastoring that is lacking in these areas. Preaching is an integral part of this pastoring. It is how the pastor addresses the needs of the local congregation. How we become so growth driven that we have forgotten the entire point of the pastor?

[Aaron Smith]

I hear what your saying here bob, but I'm wondering...

My buddy Blair has a teaching gift, but he is not the 'speak in front of a group' type at all. In fact, that setting is the very thing that makes him feel he can not teach. He does it so much better around a table with pizza and beer. As i see him teach, and as we talk I am wondering if teachers in the coming (and the now) generations will always be teaching from a pulpit.

So, I'm thinking about methodology here: we are conditioned to have a 'pulpit time' in our services/gatherings. Could it be that using a video for the 'pulpit time' may actually take some pressure off of those gifted to teach, and free them to teach the body outside of the gathering time?

I'm just asking, trying to think through people using there gifts when there personalities/way of thinking tends to move them outside the circle of Sunday mornings (or whenever the service/gathering is). Maybe video venues could be one solution to this.

[bobhyatt]

Aaron- that's the best possible spin, and the one those advocating video venues most often appeal to.

Your buddy blair may not be the "speak in front of a group" type- he doesn't need to be. But one thing is certain- in a video venue church, he probably never could be. He wouldn't get the chance to try, to learn and grow in the art of teaching in a larger group setting.

[Aaron Smith]

the more I think about it, the more I'm so not down with this. I agree with what you are saying about it Bob. As I was thinking about what I said today, I realized that if this is what happens, then the time is going to come when the 'pulpit time' is no more, and thus the video stops being useful. In that scenario, the video venue is just a transition stage into something else.

So ya, I agree, the video venue model is going to kill the preacher (at least in the traditional roll of pulpit time)... but I guess I'm wondering if in some situations, that might be for the best? Just thinking out loud.

[Aaron Smith]

Don't get me wrong, I'm so not down with the video venue model. Just thinking about what preaching is/could be and trying to see how we can fill the need for local teachers in every church plant. I have a feeling it's not always going to look like 'pulpit time'.

[www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnxagPrfaTpcVr1t3pXzEZo53qIc7m5HsA]

Hey Bob,

Can we carry your big idea here over into blogging? For instance, my reading of your blog posts for years now has been my investment in you. Just one question; when will it start paying dividends?

On a serious note, great post as it pushes me to further think about how the Spirit is so uniquely involved in development of each local community.

[ryan]

Not sure why my last post showed up that way, but did not want to remain anonymous.

[Rich Kirkpatrick]

Soon, worship leaders will be holograms and then I am toast! ;)

[heffe]

amen and amen. Video venues are to me a symptom of a deeper problem that the larger American Evangelical Church has which is what I call the presentation service. Where as church needs to be relational and involve all the congregants in the process. Church is first and foremost a partipation gathering of believers.

When we take out the participation of beleivers, then really it is not much different then seeing a good movie. It may say something good and engage our brains a little bit, but if we aren't engaged then when we leave the "movie" it is back to our "regular" lives that don't really involve God, Christ, the Church, or impact our communities.

[Tina Lips]

Hey Aaron,
I remember when I first became an elder at Evergreen and specifically said I do not think leading the discussion on Sundays would be my forte. After doing it a few times I realize I actually enjoy it quite a bit. My sweet spot still is one-on-one discipleship or small group type stuff however if I had not been challenged to and encouraged to step out of my comfort zone I would never have learned a new skill and actually enjoy it. I also feel like my gifts in smaller setting discipleship have informed my style of leading a larger gathering and thus gives my leadership style a different spin than other elders...which is a good thing. I love the diversity of our teaching styles as an elder team. I wonder if Blair stretched himself he would see that he actually has a lot to offer in a "pulpit" role that others do not.

[Aaron Smith]

Tina,
Thanks for that. I love the diversity too. I'm so glad that evergreen gives teaches the chance to fly or fail in the "pulpit". In Blair's case, I really hope he does get a chance to stretch and grow in that area. I think it would do him good.

But I'm also thinking about different ways a community gathering can play out. Not sure if a speaker at the center of the gathering is always the best model. Not saying it should be totally abandoned... I don't know though. Just thinking out loud here.

I do really appreciate your story though. It gives a new perspective on it all. Need to think some stuff over now. :)

[Wes Woodell]

Great article - I linked to this entry from Dan Kimball's blog, and I'm glad I did.

I'm just learning to preach myself, and wouldn't be able to continue if I were never afforded the opportunity to do it.

Great thoughts.

[tom jackson]

right on. i've experienced a bit of this "screen preaching." it's really hard to ask a question and get a response from a screen, ha. i really appreciate the discussion and interaction (even if i don't speak up), and the thought and work that you (the elders) put into preparing what you do. thanks.

[Lee Herring]

Dear Sir,

Preach it, brother.

Sincerely,
Lee

[mary]

And one other thing---someday, all those video people will die (Not being morbid, jsut honest) and then what will happend when no one else is around? Who will step up when a generation has been skipped, not released, not trained...

[Zach Lind]

i think you could turn this into a fiction story, bob. video venue becomes all the rage, everyone is doing it. churches merge and there end up only being 13 preachers who preach to all of America on a given Sunday. Then, while these 13 preachers are attending a conference, they all die by falling HD projectors that become unmounted from the ceiling. Now, with all those preachers dead, no one know how to preach and church becomes just a video feed of chris tomlin singing songs.

[Jeff Lash]

Really good thoughts Bob. I couldn't agree more. I think it boils down to a few different issues. I think we must consider what matters in the long term over the short term. Yes...video venues can be assembled rather quickly (or more quickly) with some of the main pieces being broadcast over the big screen. But even for the most pure-hearted pastors can suffer from the consequences of focusing each video location around a central figure. Yes...it might be unintended but it is harmful nonetheless. Doesn't multiplying leaders and teachers make sense on so many levels? Not least of these reasons would be the example of Jesus himself. He invested himself in a small group of men who would invest themselves in others and so on...as Robert Coleman would advocate in The Master's Plan of Evangelism. Anyhow...I digress. I think you have a compelling argument here.

[Andrew Conard]

Bob - I really appreciate your thoughts. I am currently serving at a church where video venues and consideration of a live stream / internet campus is in the mix. You have some excellent points. I can attest to the value of practice in preaching to get better. However, I do believe that there is some value in stewardship of resources in video venues - sharing the gifts of talented communicators and freeing up time for others to do other ministry.
However, I do hear the challenge of raising up the next generation. Thanks for helping me think about this.

[Jim Martin]

Bob,
This is my first visit to your blog. I will be back. This is an outstanding post. Cause me to think. Came here from D. Kimball's blog.

[Mark]

A few weeks ago I had someone "filling in the pulpit" while I was gone. When people found out that it was not going to be me in the pulpit I heard all kinds of concerns about the quality of the preaching they expect on Sunday. "so and so isn't as good as you". At first I was flattered, and I could see how video tapping myself to preach at the worship service or at other gatherings would totally feed my ego which would be way not healthy for me spiritually or for my congregation. Secondly we forget that the other three who normally would fill in for me aren't with us now because they are either at seminary or serving churches, precisely because we allowed them to develop a gift God had given them graciously in our midst!

Your mileage may vary

[john]

thanks for your thoughts bob. agree a great deal with your take on video venues.
seems to me the spirit can make anything work. at least that's what i believe. so while it bothers me greatly---to the point that i just have to pray that god allows me to practice grace over it, i'm just going to do all i can to make sure i'm ready for those who find themselves jaded years later by their entire religious experience from sunday to sunday. how refreshing it'll be for so many that long to be near a pastor who feels the compulsion to lead his people both in body, spirit, and in truth.

[Randy (South Texas)]

Aaron, I like your points.

[Randy (South Texas)]

http://www.dankimball.com/vintage_faith/2009/03/leave-it-to-bob-to-ask-good-questions-about-video-venues.html?cid=6a00d83453083969e201127966132128a4#comment-6a00d83453083969e201127966132128a4

[Dale Fincher]

I do speaking for a living... www.soulation.org. And I do hear what you've quoted this from time to time: "just aren't enough talented teachers to go around." It disheartens me.

Not only because people doubt the Spirit can raise up others with teaching gifts, but because people assume that the teachers they already listen to are talented and good teachers (when I listen to Christian radio, I'm discouraged by how much bad preaching gets huge financial support).

Churches, without video, are often too centralized as it is. Video makes it worse. I have found little encouragement in the evangelical church for lay-people to grow into their giftedness, partly because dependence on the church staff is needed to keep the cash flow and paid positions justified.

I'm concerned how much power a one-man-at-the-top-doing-all-the-teaching has as it is, much less multiplying it with video. The church, I believe, has to rethink what it means for Jesus the Messiah to be the HEAD of the church. By all appearances, it often looks like pastor has replaced the Messiah, at least by how many parishioners treat pastors. Too many people find their identity in their pastors, especially celebrity pastors...

If the Spirit equips teachers, then there are good teaches in every locale among those willing to listen to the Spirit and discipline themselves to do the work. I appreciate your post!