Some thoughts for Mark Driscoll

Dear Mark,

Wow.

When you step on a scene, you really know how to make an entrance, don't you? For a couple of years, everyone involved in the emerging church conversation/blogosphere has been wondering "where is Mark Driscoll?"
And bang- you don't just start a blog... you open up with both barrels.
I have to give it to you, you really know how to stir the pot.

But I have a couple of things I've been thinking about this last week, and I probably need to just get them out, so bear with me, if you would.

Since no one else seems to want to say this, I guess I will. You come off as obssessed with numbers. You mention them every chance you get. And while I'm glad that you now refer to your church as "one of" the biggest in Washington, rather than "the biggest" (sermon, 11.13.05), since that title really goes to Crossroads church in Vancouver, I'm still amazed at how often numbers pop up in your writing. You've been blogging for a very short time now... But in that time you've told us how big your church is, how big and fast growing your friend's churches are, how you've had lunch with some really big names, how many churches you've planted, how many times your sermons have been downloaded over this last year, the fact that your church is among the 60 fastest growing and 25 most influential in America, etc, etc, etc...

I'm left wondering what you are really trying to accomplish.

But as concerned as I am with all that, your recent piece responding to Brian McLaren's thoughts on homosexuality takes the cake... and also leaves me wondering just what it is you are trying to accomplish.

With a rapier wit, you managed to insult your former "acquaintances" (Really? Doug's not even a friend anymore?), slip in a nice insult regarding Doug's views on sexuality (which, thankfully was edited out after initially being published, most likely due to the extremely offensive nature of suggesting that people in Doug's vicinity should lock up their livestock) and completely miss engaging with McLaren's ideas at all.

Mark, you are standing at a crossroads right now. Down one road lies all kinds of applause and kudos from a lot of people who already agree with you. They'll slap you on the back every time you lash out at "those who drink from the toilet of emergent theology" and they'll high five you every time you put another "limp wristed" "homo-evangelical" in his place. Your stock among the Truly Reformed will rise... and those who identify in any way, shape or form with the emerging church conversation will write you off completely as an obnoxious, arrogant ass. The young preachers you supposedly want to influence will miss what you are saying to them because of the way that you are saying it to them.

But down the other road is actually having an influence on all the people and churches you claim to be so concerned about.

And the difference between taking one road or another lies primarily in your ability to control your tongue.

Sure, we all know Jesus had some harsh words for people like the Pharisees. We all know that at times, sarcasm is appropriate and even useful. But I have to tell you, if you want to have the impact you say you want to have, you are going to have to set aside the need to appear clever, to score with the zinger, and speak the truth in love. It's interesting to me that James' admonition about our tongues comes in the context of a warning to teachers: "Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged by God with greater strictness. We all make many mistakes, but those who control their tongues can also control themselves in every other way." Man to man, Mark, I have to tell you that God is not only going to judge you on the correctness of your doctrine, but also on the way you present it and how you interact with others over it. This is something I myself am learning these days...

I want you to be a voice in the emerging church. It needs you. But in order for that to happen, you'll need to stop throwing bombs. Clanging cymbals may get noticed, but ultimately, they accomplish little.

Please stop insulting your friends, please heed the words of the Bible you quote to answer others "...in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear."

Please speak the truth in love.

Bob.

Comments

[jane]

Momos Quote:

"if you could get over your self-serving egotistical disorder you arrogant ass, maybe you could live a full life that jesus intended for you (john 10:10) rather than criticizing sombody who is doing the best job that he can do to serve the gracious god who gave him a full and blessed life, and who created you. and start prasing god yourself, i have yet to hear you say one thing that is instructive in the path of god that was laid out in the holy bible. maybe that's the reason that you feel free to criticize... because you haven't produced any fruits that people have criticized yet. maybe marks fruit have some minor blemishes on them, but at least he's producing. what have you done?"

Poor, uninsightful Momo: Have you ever heard Bob preach? Have you ever visited his community or spoken with anyone from that community or even someone that knows Bob? If you are going to take that much time to type all of that senseless and poorly written garbage, don't you think you should atleast have SOME knowledge of the subject you are bashing?

Ignorent and arrogant ass are words that YOU used but, I must say, it certainly appears this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I would suggest a little more thought before you write. You may not come off as so ridiculous.

Oh, and MOMO, I will also pray that our forgiving Father will bless you with a more Christian heart.

[bob]

Mom, mom... don't feed the trolls! :)

[jane]

I know, I know...just can't help myself. But I was fairly well behaved, wasn't I? Its not like I mentioned the DeLauro's or anything. :)

[momos]

first of all. i'm black, abraham lincoln is responsible for the emancipation proclaimation...(incase you didn't know) by laughing at him you are doing the very thing that you accused mark of... offending people

that was one of my points... i have never heard him preach, i have never heard anything GLORIFYING GOD come out of his mouth (or keyboard). mark on the other hand is doing everything he can with his talents to reach people, and he is succeding. don't think i found this site because i heard about bob... i found it because i was wondering what all the "ignorant bloggers" were doing that bothered mark and his wife, so i decided to find out. and here i ended up, after searching for mark driscoll and finding this site, i have discovered the ignorance that he has referenced.

now why can't you start a blog about the "freedom from religion organization" and criticize their views rather than someone who (as i have tried to explain before) is having jesus work in his heart, and is trying to share that love with others?

oh and one more thing... (get ready for another run-on)
do you realize that if a seed was planted by mark in somones heart, and they want to find out more about jesus then come here and read all of these defaming comments about their seed planter, and consequently turn away from jesus... that is the devil working through you?
think about it... people constantly underestimate the power of the devil to disguise himself and work through them. seriously 3nd paragraph

[momos]

(the 2nd paragraph was in reference to "bob"...
i'm not perfect

[bob]

Again... Abraham Lincoln???

I had a great talk with one of Mark's elders this weekend. So glad he has smart, capable, godly people around him.

Momos, you are reading what I am not writing.
If you think I'm
1. Completely critical of Mark
2. that Mark is above critique
then you are wrong on both counts. My comments to him hereand in other places come in the context of a large amount of respect for his intellect, preaching ability and love for God. If I didn't see those things in him, I wouldn't be so upset about the rough edges that he displays so publically.

I like Mark, but when he does a boneheaded thing publicly like what this blog entry was about (that he later apologized for), in the same way he very publicly calls out people, he himself is not above being called out.

Get over it. Mark apologized, and we moved on.

[momos]

you are definatly correct that he is not above being called out. i realize that his comments on sexuality may be offensive to some, but i do not believe that they warrant an apology... if i could talk directly to mark, i would criticize him for apologizing. didn't jesus offend people when they did something against god? (that was rhetorical)

what is wrong with abraham lincoln? seriously, you may think it's silly but it's really rude to me. i value my freedom, and am grateful everyday for it, maybe that's something beyond your scope of understanding.

i'm not accusing you, but rather asking... do you consider yourself superior to african americans? do you consider yourself racist?

[momos]

really quick, i wasn't implying that the only thing mark has ever done wrong is apologize...
don't want that to be misinterpreted.

[bob]

I don't have time to read back through this whole thread. Can you tell me what I said about Abraham Lincoln that you find offensive?

[momos]

sure, i was listing a few people who have done good for humanity and in there was lincoln... you responded "Abraham Lincoln?
Congrats... that's about the nuttiest comment anyone has ever left..."
which implies that it was illogical to list lincoln as a person who has done good.
again i appreciate what he has done for me and regaurd him with respect... saying he wasn't a good person is linear with saying african americans should still be enslaved.

let's both digress, unless you comment back about this, i'll give you the benifit of the doubt and assume that you are not a racist : )

so far you have made no reference to any fruits of the spirit that you have produced for god. do you have any transcripts or podcasts that you can send me a link for (i think jane made reference to you preaching... maybe) i am always interested in learning more about jesus.

[momos]

Jan Quote:
"Ignorent and arrogant ass are words that YOU used but, I must say, it certainly appears this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I would suggest a little more thought before you write."

i definatly hadn't called bob ignorant at that point in the conversation, and i certainly didn't spell it "ignorEnt".

i said "if you could get over your self-serving egotistical disorder" and i alluded to his early remark about people calling mark an "arrogant ass"

there are words of wisdom all around, but nobody ever seems to listen...
i've heard two awesome quotes that i think could really apply to you
"don't you think you should atleast have SOME knowledge of the subject you are bashing?"
"I would suggest a little more thought before you write. You may not come off as so ridiculous."

i don't remember where i heard them... oh well

Oh, and JAN, I will also pray that our forgiving Father will bless you with a more Christian heart.

[momos]

i have been praying for 5 days now for patience. but i have not prayed in a way that is right, meaning in direct contradiction to the nature of god. i have asked for patience, but in the back of my thoughts roams the "...and help them understand" the final point is that you are going to believe what you want... you all think you know what the bible says about every situation that comes your way, so you don't go to your bible and look it up when you read a blog by some person named momos. more of you probally looked up the name momos and found out the relevance than looked in your bible to see if any bloggers views were accurate.
were all guilty but i want bob to answer this one... how many times a day do you look at your cell phone to make sure you haven't missed a call? how many times a day do you look at this blog to see if you received praise from someone? and how many times a day do you open your bible to see if you are reciving the messages that god is trying to send you?
i'll go ahead and say the latter is the least (of the first and last) for me. and i don't think it would be a stretch to say that most of us can agree.
i wish we all focused on what god wanted for us, more than what other people want from us.

bob, i'm going to stop asking you how you serve the lord, but i hope that there is some way that you serve him. and that you will one day hear "well done, my good and faithfull servant."

jane, sorry about all the sarcasm, but your hippocracy was astounding. i truely will pray that you have a heart of forgiveness. a less divided view of "mark vs. bob", all humans are falliable (hope nobody's catholic) you seem to always defend bob (as i probally seem to defend mark) but we both need to realize that the one who is right is always jesus. i will pray that you remember that and that it stays on the forefront of my mind as well.

dan brown, i only read your blurb, but i will pray that you take god's word as truth, and know that masturbation is artificial sex, so unless you are married in the church to your hand... it is a sin, and adultry is a sin. and all sin seperates us from god (which is bad).

casey, i seem to be on the same page as you, but i think neither of us are handling the situation of the descration of holliness the way that jesus would perfer. you were probally closer to the mark than i, though. i'll pray for guidance in our lives.

ross royden, i pray for the bravery it takes to be bold in faith, and that you understand the importance of defending the truth that god has layed out for us through the bible.

drew, the ideas that you have for reaching the "audience" is named by psychologists as the "foot in the door" method, and though more comfortable for the solicitor and the so called audience, it is a matter of pleasing someone, and then manipulating them to change bit by bit. it is plain wrong it takes guts to tell someone "broad is the gate that leads to destruction and many may enter through it, but narrow is the path to life and only a few may enter through it." it may not fit the "all inclusive" motto of the culture we live in, but it is the unchangeing truth of our god.

thea, all i have to say to you is about this line "the emerging conversation wants to embrace the world and make it a better place for all."
"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." romans 12:2

I'm going to go pray.

I hope you all are blessed by god and that he reveal to all of us his perfect will, in our everyday lives.

[jane]

This is sooooo silly, Momos. Now Bob is a racist? Whats next?

Just to clarify: Bob is lead pastor of the Evergreen Community. He serves God every day of his life. His podcasts are available through this blog as well as the many articles he has written that have been published. Please do take the time to access these links. He is also editing on the Next Wave website.

You are attacking Bob without even knowing him and then accusing me of not having any knowledge of the subject which, was Bob.

Just for future reference: I gave birth to Bob. I am his mother. Therefore, my knowledge of him gives me the right to speak on his character as much as I care to. But, his love for the Lord and his work here in Portland (and numerous other locations before he PLANTED his church here)is obvious to anyone that knows him.

Therefore, although I stand by my original statements, I feel there is no further need to defend him to you. I am sorry, however, that you feel it neccesary to use my son as a scapegoat for your obvious personal issues.

I will keep you in my prayers.

[aaron]

Oh wow. Poor momos.

[bob]

I should probably just close the comments on this thread :)

[Scott]

Bob,

I think this post needs to find a place in a deep hole somewhere never to be revived.

[bob]

Tell me more... because of the comments going off the rails or because of the actual post?

[Erik]

[I don't know, Bob... that bit about masturbation being the same as adultery was up there as well.

Posted by: Dan Brown ]

Yeah, next thing some wing nut will equate lust and adultry. ;)

[fedup]

Driscoll's recent bad pub and removal from the Seattle Times as a columnist was foretold in this blog.