Don't take the bait!

So, those Team Pyro guys are still at it...

And what's worse, it's devolved into berating us emerging church types for not responding in kind. Apparently, Grace's posters and mine below don't really do it for them, focused as the posters are more on what we are for rather than against, on what we're trying to be rather than mocking others for what we (mis)perceive them to be.

Frank, who stopped by here on another thread and even left some nice (mostly!) comments had this to say:
"

         

          

centuri0n    said...

Also, the fact that they got nothin' in reply -- they can't even field a team -- makes me wonder where all the creative types they allegedly minister to are in all this.

Apparently they have better things to do, like ministry.

...

here's my guess -- they can't do it without vulgarity, pornography or blasphemy.

And for the record -- I'd love to eat my words here. I'd love it if someone really, really went through the archives and made some "PyroMedia" posters which went after our many foibles.

Of course this kind of thing isn't any fun when the other guy is saying, "oh gawsh -- that's HILARIOUS!" 

It's snarky, arrogant asininity like that above that really makes me want to forget the whole peacemaker thing and just throw down.

I know, I know... that's the worst possible response to the kind of slander and misrepresentation that daily foists itself off as "discernment" out there on the interwebs...

But if I were to respond to something as ridiculous as this

(which I'm not!)...

It might look a little something... like this:

or...

But that would just be silly and immature, wouldn't it?

 

I mean, I couldn't expect anyone to see those and CHANGE could I?
No... that would be ridiculous to think something like these could actually get through to the people I'm mocking.

That would probably take a different approach altogether...

Comments

[Dustin]

this guys an ass-clown.

[brad]

most excellent fit with Pride and Arrogance!

[Frank Turk (centuri0n)]

Oh Booyah! Let me say, Bob, that this is, at last, a really decent attempt to fight fire with fire.

Hat's off -- that's good work -- both in representing your side and in making a good laugh.

Now about that annihilation thing ...

[Frank Turk (centuri0n)]

Dustin --

Thank you for proving my point.

[david]

bob,

dust on sandals.

shake.

(hey look, i can post with the same spirit at two different sites!)

[Garet]

Funny and creative- see it's not so hard. I don't even feel offended or hurt. I would say good honest satire, with a dose of solid sarcasm, is a great way to hold a mirror up in front of people... worked well for Jonathan Swift. Kudos.

[Bob]

Frank...

For the record.
I don't WANT to fight fire with fire.

I consider that a failure.
A real failure.

I want you to know that when we don't answer you in kind it's not because we can't, it's because we won't. Because we're trying to take things like 1 Thess 5:15 seriously...

I know you'll read this as a put-down, but it's not...
I consider it a tragedy that this is the only thing you respect.

[brad]

Bob, kudos once again for your last comment!!!

[Frank Turk (centuri0n)]

I consider it a tragedy, Bob, that your religion has made you allergic to jokes.

I don't think this is "insulting": I think it's engaging in a way which requires more thought than a head-shake or a nod. You guys with your very high-brow view of language, communication, narrative, etc., ought to think about whether jokes are a genre which God owns.

Because He does. It's a shame you see it as a sinful pursuit.

[Bob]

Is THAT a joke?
If you can even scan this blog and seriously make the suggestion that I am "allergic" to jokes, I'd have to say you are either extremely dumb or simply willing to bend the truth to score rhetorical points.
I know which one I think it is, but understand, with either option you lose.

The issue isn't jokes, Frank. Clearly.

Did you look up 1st Thes 5 yet?

[david]

bob,

you've got to let it go. for all the good that these guys do and for all the wisdom they often exhibit, they've got two huge blindspots that are colliding here:

1) postmodernism/emerging church
2) criticism from anyone outside their holy huddle

you will not reach resolution through reason on these issues, they don't understand the concept of "context" in humor...

(ie. it's not funny for me to mock the blind guy I just tripped)

"It's snarky, arrogant asininity like that above that really makes me want to forget the whole peacemaker thing and just throw down.
I know, I know... that's the worst possible response to the kind of slander and misrepresentation that daily foists itself off as "discernment" out there on the interwebs..."

"I'd have to say you are either extremely dumb or simply willing to bend the truth to score rhetorical points. "

Hmmmmm glad he didn't lower himself to insults. Trust me, the posters are far better than these posts.

LeeC

[Bob]

Please don't talk about me in the third person.
"he" is right here... and "he" is (as he said) saddened that guys like Frank seem to respect only a certain type of rough and tumble exchange.

I hear you David. I guess I'm not willing to give up on Frank yet.
My hope is he'll take the bait of the posters and rough exchanges and get the hook of what I'm really trying to say here.
No such luck yet... but fingers crossed!

Ok,
My apologies.
Your posts seem full of a condescention all of your own with severe personal judgements upon individuals character while on the other hand you get offended at general statements that if you were willing to look you would see have some real validity. Just as most honest Calvinists openly admit there are many in their camp who are not very loving, and do not share the Gospel as they should even though they do not represent all Calvinists.

That smacks of blinders and hypocrisy.

[Bob]

wow... if THAT'S the apology...
:)

[jane]

A very wise young man, with a sense of humor, has told me more than once: "Don't feed the trolls, Mom!" Right back at 'ya, son.

Go and be free! Don't even look at this again, atleast until next week.

[ryan]

should have resisted bob, don't really see any benefit in a tit for tat in this case.

[Dustin]

i'm glad I made an impact on this discussion. I guess I say such a silly thing (an Office Space quote mind you) because I HAVE given up on these guys and this conversation. It's gotten silly, much like my comment and seems to be serving no purpose.

[Frank Turk (centuri0n)]

Do you want to have a serious discussion about this Bob, or do you want to violate your personal rules to call me "dumb" and let your readers call me an "ass-clown"?

See: at some point you have to participate in this discussion at a serious level and not as if what you said in the last post, or two posts ago, doesn't exist.

If you'd like to discuss 1 Thes 5, I'm in. Let's do it in someplace other than blog comments in a place where the whole discussion can be read in-sequence without interruptions or lurkers side-tracking it.

I could set up a blog; you could set it up so you can admin the discussion and pull the plug when you think it's all over.

I have read your blog, and it turns out that you only like jokes you make -- which means something interesting in and of itself, I think, but I don't want to get too certain about things.

[Bob]

No, this is fine, Frank.

And for the record- I don't "let" anyone call anyone anything.The only reason I didn't delete that was your image capture of it on your blog and the inevitable accusation that would have followed that I'm trying to expunge the record...

And I didn't call you dumb. I don't think you are. I do think it's one of two possible reasons for what you said- but my money is on the other one.

And since we're on it- I think humor is great. I think you at Team Pyro traffic in and profit from the worst, most hurtful kind- that at someone else's expense... which at times is unavoidable and fine (in the context of relationship and building up on the other side), but combine it with the misrepresentation and over-the-top aggression when someone pushes back in the slightest?

I'd like to believe you are something more than an intellectual bully who gets his kicks from making people feel small and stupid, but just happens to use theology as his stick, but you're not giving me much to go on, you know?

[Frank Turk (centuri0n)]

Aha. I'm a bully. Now we are getting someplace.

So we're back to 1 Thes 5. Which part did you want to discuss -- v. 3 or v. 26? Or was there somethinge elsewhere in 1 Thes that re-occurs in Chapt 5 which you think is useful? Or did I miss the verse or verses you wanted to think about together?

It's your blog -- I'm all ears. My only commitment is to answer all the questions you ask; my only request is that you answer the questions I ask.

Does that sound fair?

[Bob]

It does indeed sound fair.

Tell you what- I'm trying to wrap up a couple of things before heading out of town for the weekend. How about if we meet back here on Tuesday and pick up at 1 Thess 5 (and Hell as well)...?

[david]

bob... let it go.

frank, "clown" seems to be a fair insult in this discussion, dustin has just chosen a different modifier than "rodeo"...

and seriously, bob. let it go, you're a much better writer when you are being vulnerable about your own journey, rather than trying to justify it to someone who has no "ears to hear".

[Frank Turk (centuri0n)]

Bob -- Amen. I'm in, and I'll be back Monday or Tuesday to talk those topics in the order you choose to engage them.
__________________

David:

"Clown" I accept and even use myself from time to time -- from people who believe that criticism is a form of building-up. "Ass-clown", however, is another story as it speaks to things like whether or not vulgarity is appropriate.

Thanks for asking. I have to say that I admire Bob for engaging, and I wonder if the rest of you will think less of him for trying to make a reasonable point.

[Garet]

David and Dustin:

"Ass-clown" is a derogatory epithet directed at homosexual men or to insult by insinuating that someone else has those tendencies. Which is how it fits into the context of Office Space:

Samir: No one in this country can ever pronounce my name right. It's not that hard: Samir Na-gheen-an-a-jar. Nagheenanajar.
Michael Bolton: Yeah, well at least your name isn't Michael Bolton.
Samir: You know there's nothing wrong with that name.
Michael Bolton: There was nothing wrong with it... until I was about 12 years old and that no-talent ass clown became famous and started winning Grammys.
Samir: Hmm... well why don't you just go by Mike instead of Michael?
Michael Bolton: No way. Why should I change? He's the one who sucks.

For the "conversation" that claims to have the market cornered on context, relevance,civility, sensitivity and tolerance... nice move.

"The cavity created by ignorance is always filled with falsehood." J. Piper